Curse

Ultimate Sacrifice · Feb 18, 2006, 07:52 PM // 19:52

Topic^

Nessaja · Feb 18, 2006, 08:05 PM // 20:05

What I used to run was

ESurge
EDrain
ETap
Power Leak
Power Spike
Power Drain
Mind Wrack
Res Sig

For team arenas, but I always was with a guildie running a migraine build, and 2 guild monks. So you need to change around for more survivability.

Mr Jazzy · Feb 18, 2006, 08:10 PM // 20:10

how did u have energy drain and energy surge at the same time?

Avarre · Feb 18, 2006, 11:39 PM // 23:39

My (and others', its not fully original) e-denial build for CA/TA was:

Energy Surge
Energy Burn
Signet of Weariness
Signet of Humility
Leech signet
Mind wrack
Mantra of inscriptions
Res signet

10 + 1 + 3 Dom (14 breakpoint for 10 drain on dom skills)
11 + 1 Insp (45% faster signet charge, continual humility disable)

rest to fast cast.

Quickly burn their energy down, using mind wrack as an indicator when they hit 0. Then alternate wrack - <energy removal skill> - wrack, etc, to constantly trigger wrack on them while keeping them at 0 energy.

1v1 this build will slaughter boonprot without a chance (actually, so can be said of many builds, but meh), so long as you aren't ganked. Humility disables OoB on them, crippling their energy renewal. Also takes out the key focus of many other builds, (IW, Eviscerate, Life trans, etc)

icemonkey · Feb 19, 2006, 12:00 AM // 00:00

/seconded

Nessaja · Feb 19, 2006, 02:09 AM // 02:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Jazzy

how did u have energy drain and energy surge at the same time?

my bad, EBurn instead of drain

The above build is alright, seems a little low on interrupts for my taste. Espeically when you got an ally that is a Migraine mesmer

Avarre · Feb 19, 2006, 03:47 AM // 03:47

Yeah I don't run many interrupts on my build. Leech sig is mainly for stopping large spells and res signets. In any case, for the build I posted you'll be focusing fire... a migrane mesmer would be targetting something else, so you wouldn't be swapping over to interrupt that one anyways usually.

Besides, Migrane mesmers usually have their own 2-3 interrupts.

Also to note is you can swap out humility for drain enchantment. Humility is only in for the minor messups it causes (Migrane mesmer with no migrane? Kekeke).

Nessaja · Feb 19, 2006, 04:00 AM // 04:00

I tried that build in CA, those signets are a really easy targets for interrupts.

Do signets recharge faster from weapon mods, doesn't look like they do.

Avarre · Feb 19, 2006, 04:05 AM // 04:05

Nope, weapon mods only effect on spells.

The only people that can significantly distract you are rangers... usually in TA, you can go for 1 monk alone and the rest of the team can pile anyone who tries to stop you. In CA its obviously a little more random, but you're pretty safe against enemy mesmers (except ignorance, I hate that).

Ultimate Sacrifice · Feb 21, 2006, 02:03 AM // 02:03

The only problem I see is that, no self heal, so you'll be dead in less than 10 seconds before you can drain that monks energy..

Avarre · Feb 21, 2006, 11:42 AM // 11:42

In TA, you generally assume your team healer / protter isn't incompetent

I generally don't have too much trouble with self-preservation. Selfheals are mainly for CA / widespread gvg battles.

For CA, you can drop humility for ether feast or put 4 in illusion and use distortion (no, it doesn't hurt that much at -2). Even without these skills, after you fire your first salvo of -30 energy you don't stand around... kite kite!

What if... · Feb 27, 2006, 12:13 PM // 12:13

I use a build pretty similar to the one Avarre uses, accept, instead of Leech Signet and Mantra of Inscriptions, I carry Distortion and Spirit of Failure for energy management and protection against non-casters.

c-onverse · Feb 27, 2006, 12:19 PM // 12:19

Quote:

My (and others', its not fully original) e-denial build for CA/TA was:

Energy Surge
Energy Burn
Signet of Weariness
Signet of Humility
Leech signet
Mind wrack
Mantra of inscriptions
Res signet

10 + 1 + 3 Dom (14 breakpoint for 10 drain on dom skills)
11 + 1 Insp (45% faster signet charge, continual humility disable)

rest to fast cast.

Quickly burn their energy down, using mind wrack as an indicator when they hit 0. Then alternate wrack - <energy removal skill> - wrack, etc, to constantly trigger wrack on them while keeping them at 0 energy.

1v1 this build will slaughter boonprot without a chance (actually, so can be said of many builds, but meh), so long as you aren't ganked. Humility disables OoB on them, crippling their energy renewal. Also takes out the key focus of many other builds, (IW, Eviscerate, Life trans, etc)

excatly what I use, only I usually swap out leech signet for diversion. I love that spell, I never leave without it

glountz · Feb 27, 2006, 12:22 PM // 12:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

For CA, you can drop humility for ether feast or put 4 in illusion and use distortion (no, it doesn't hurt that much at -2). Even without these skills, after you fire your first salvo of -30 energy you don't stand around... kite kite!

Yeah I was wondering how well you could do in TA without this. Not only it protects you from physical attacks but it prevents you from being interrupted by nasty rangers, especially on your long casting signets.

My alternative build (not as well rounded as Avarre's one which doesn't only affects mana but damage as well, but still viable):
10+1+3 Insp. (love the animal mask).
11+1 Dom.
8+1 FC
Rest Illusion+1

Res signet
Energy Drain
Arcane Echo
Energy Tap/spare (S. humility/weariness/leech/power leak/whatever you want)
Mind wrack
Spirit Shackles
Distortion
Energy burn

Arcane Echo Energy drain, then alternate between energy denials. Use Spirit on Rangers and Warrs. THe combo spirit shackles+Mind wrack is highly effective on Gale W.

agentblade · Feb 27, 2006, 02:15 PM // 14:15

you'll be able to drain rangers and warriors' energy quite well with this build. But you won't be able to be an effective monk energy denial.

Because of the nerft towards e-drain it is not as effective as an e-denial spell anymore..

but e-denial requires quite a number of spells to be a truely effective monk e-denial because most monks these days carry Offering of Blood. So with one or two e-denial spells isn't going to cause too much of a problem to the monk..

Avarre · Feb 27, 2006, 03:28 PM // 15:28

Signet of Humility + Mantra of Inscriptions is god against Offering of Blood... the entire energy management of the already costy boonprot is gone. Great skill to bring.

glountz · Feb 27, 2006, 04:53 PM // 16:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by agentblade

you'll be able to drain rangers and warriors' energy quite well with this build. But you won't be able to be an effective monk energy denial.

Because of the nerft towards e-drain it is not as effective as an e-denial spell anymore..

but e-denial requires quite a number of spells to be a truely effective monk e-denial because most monks these days carry Offering of Blood. So with one or two e-denial spells isn't going to cause too much of a problem to the monk..

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

Signet of Humility + Mantra of Inscriptions is god against Offering of Blood... the entire energy management of the already costy boonprot is gone. Great skill to bring.

In fact, comparing Avarre's build to mine, I drain in one shot 29 Energy (2*10 from E-drain +9 from E-burn) opposed to 30 + a conditionnal 12 from Leech signet if you interrupt (but without Distortion Avarre's build is VERY sensitive to interruption or ennemy damage, so I think in CA/TA Leech Signet should be left for Distortion).
The recharge of my E-drain/burn is a bit longer though than hers.
You can in my build throw away E-tap for Signet of Humility if you want to focus on monk E-denial (at 14 insp it lasts 15 sec, with a recharge of 20 it's a fair deal). I myself in RA throw away E-tap for Ether feast, at 14 Insp it heals 135, with distortion you can last very long.
Avarre's build focuses on E-denying one character. Mine is to E-deny most of RA/TA scum (rangers + warriors are really numerous in arena), while still being effective (but less than Avarre's build) against casters. If Avarre's build fall upon Gale warrior/ranger team spike with this build with no monk, (or, say, a monk with Signet of Devotion), she won't be able to be as effective as she could.
On rangers or frenzy warriors, Spirit shackles/MW is deadly. The rangers attack sufficiently slowly to gain 1 energy between their attacks, thus triggering M wrack each time they do so, in addition of completely shutting them down as all of their attack skills requires energy. Gale/Whammos are completely shutdown as well, excepted if they have HoD helm, so your hexes won't last that long (but still 10 sec or more, sufficiently to drain all their energy.)
In addition, you can spam the Spirit Sh/MWrack combo on each character of an opposite team, as it costs nothing (5 energy) and has a very quick recharge (5sec).
My build is focused to Drain the energy of the whole opposing team, whereas Avarre's one (commonly used, I have used it often myself) focus on disrupting a key character (here, the prot booner obviously).

But seriously if you take Avarre's build, you should really take distortion along. As you use signets, you are protected from mesmer's interrupts, but with distortion, you are protected against most of ranger/warrior's ones as well, so you can drain Energy without fearing any shutdown.
EDIT: I'm really conscious that Dist will conflict with Mantra of Inscriptions. But if you are targeted and you don't have it for emergency issue, you will die/be debilitated quite quickly. Well, after having used this kind of build I can't tell how many times I got interrupted/killed in less than 5 sec....

Dragannia · Feb 27, 2006, 07:52 PM // 19:52

If you want an interrupt, why Leech Signet? Why not Power Leak?

glountz · Feb 28, 2006, 09:38 AM // 09:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dragannia

If you want an interrupt, why Leech Signet? Why not Power Leak?

Because for the same casting time Power leak costs 10, is a spell (so triggers nasty hexes like backfire or Guilt), doesn't grant you energy back if you interrupt but only energy loss, and cannot interrupt skills, only spells.
Leech signet interrupts anything, is not a spell (so no triggering of backfire&co), costs nothing, grants you energy if you interrupt a spell, and with mantra of inscriptions recharges in 25 sec (Vs 20 sec for Power Leak).
Power leak would have its place but with Mantra of Inscriptions it's preferable to be signet heavy, and Leech signet is simply a better choice in this kind of build.

agentblade · Feb 28, 2006, 11:32 AM // 11:32

hmmm.. why not switch e-drain with e-surge instead.. with e-drain and leech sig u have a HUGE downtime in which the monk can gain back his energy..

hmm..but maybe like what u said ur focus is not on monk e-denying but warriors and ranger e-denying.. while that would be good on a ranger, it's not that useful for warriors cos even if they cannot gale u they can still do alot of damage..

To the OP:
E-denial isn't good in CA at all, cos as a mesmer in CA u need alot of self heals and self protection in order to survive.. any CA is a place u shouldn't stay long in if u're into serious PvP..

for TA most people will want you to drain the monk's energy as that would mean ur team will have an easier time killing people. Usually boon prot monks already carry guardian which helps against rangers and warriors... but Spirit Shakles is still an awesome spell to bring in..